Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 (recovery)

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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 (recovery)

Postby deja vu on Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:13 pm

A Malaysian passenger airliner with 295 people on board was shot down near the border of Ukraine and Russia, where witnesses say dozens of bodies are scattered around the wreckage, according to a number of reports.

Reuters reported that one of its correspondents in eastern Ukraine saw the burning wreckage of an airplane Thursday, with bodies on the ground. Meanwhile, an emergency services rescue worker said at least 100 bodies had been found at the scene, near the village of Grabavo, which is under the control of pro-Russia separatists and the site of severe fighting between rebels and the government.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-a ... -1.2709881

Way too early to know if it was shot down or just crashed for some other reason.

It's not surprising both sides are pointing fingers at each other, and if it was shot down by pro Russian separtists, the heat in Putin's office will go way up. He would be under a large microscope if that is the case. For now, the world waits and sees what the truth is.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby CielOnTap on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:29 am

Someone is making Malaysia Airlines bear this burden of a lost flight a second time. Condolences to the passengers' families and friends and the airline employees.

Ukraine and Russia have much to explain: the airline being shot down, the checkpoints in Donetsk (reports indicate 5 exist and are controlled by separatists) and just who was in the crash wreckage collecting flight boxes (FAA investigators are to be there but are not as yet). It was a shock to know a recognized news agency had photos of the crash wreckage as the separatists decide who is allowed into the area or not.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash-scene/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ukraine-releases-alleged-recording-of-rebels-saying-they-downed-malaysian-plane-anna-dolgov/503691.html

An individual identified as Igor Giorkin/Girkin by the National Enquirer as having boasted being responsible for shooting a "bird" this week on social media, had removed the post after the plane's identity was made known. Wikipedia has a biography on this individual who has a known Russian name in military circles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin
Igor Vsevolodovich Girkin (Russian: Игорь Всеволодович Гиркин), also known as Igor Ivanovich Strelkov
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby Speak-Ez on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:06 am

I think the BBC's live updates page, or whatever they call that, will be a good link to place here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

Frankly, this is a horrible turn of events for that area of conflict, but it is very likely to bring that conflict to a screeching halt.

In fact, the feed at 15:49BST pretty much points in that direction:

15:49: The leaders of Russia and Malaysia spoke by telephone on Friday, stressing the need for an objective investigation into the plane crash and the need to stop military operations in eastern Ukraine to facilitate the probe, Reuters reports, citing a Kremlin statement.


What was posted just after that is about a possible case brought before a war crimes tribunal by Malaysia. I suppose that is stated that way because it was their airplane.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby Speak-Ez on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:21 am

President Obama just finished making it quite clear that the United States government is rather sure that a surface-to-air missle was used to bring down that airplane, and that the altitude at which the airplane was flying means the hardware used to bring the airplane down was quite sophisticated.

I gathered from a few other ways he was explaining things that he expects more answers within 48 hours or so.

Horrible mess!

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby CielOnTap on Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:43 pm

From what I am reading online, the Ukrainian residents saw falling bodies and heard the plane sections coming down. One resident had a deceased passenger fall through her roof. There will be a need for psychological support for residents if possible.

It's not encouraging that armed militiamen are controlling access to the crash zone. Unfortunately, it is likely a strategy to boost international acceptance of the conflict and the militamen's presence, rather than show willingness to investigators to permit them to examine the zone unhindered.

Maybe I have yet to find them, but I do not see news reports of how Malaysian Airlines employees are coping.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby Rhet-or-Ric on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:26 pm

This clip from a BBC reporter at the scene helps one to better grasp the scope of this tragedy.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-28379795

And a link to the KyivPost is probably a good idea.

http://www.kyivpost.com/

For the sake of balance we should also put a link here to RIA Novosti.

http://en.ria.ru/


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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby CielOnTap on Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Putin had involvement with RIA Novosti's reorganization in March: http://www.themoscownews.com/russia/20140314/192609682/The-Moscow-News-temporarily-stops-publication.html

One English newspaper in Russia that might offer an idea of what is being reported:
Plans to move the deceased passengers' bodies to Kharkiv for identification:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/malaysia-airline-crash-victims-to-be-moved-to-kiev-controlled-city/503748.html

A Times offers a tidbit of withheld information:
A simple search at reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200 kilometers north from the usual flight path taken by Malaysia Airlines in the previous days - and plunged right in the middle of a war zone. Why? What sort of communication MH17 received from Kiev air control tower?

Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared forever.

It won't happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation on why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.


And some tweets that allegedly tell the aviation flight reality in the Ukraine sky before MH17 disappeared:
And then there's the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev's tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he's never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account - not accidentally - has been shut down, and he has disappeared; his friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online - and now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

"The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48 pm)"
"If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)"
"As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)"
"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don't believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)"
"The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn't. (7.15)"
"The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)"

http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby Rhet-or-Ric on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:24 am

At 0949 BST on July 21 the BBC restarted their Live Feed/Updates.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28399670

After they had shut that down for about 48 or more hours I assume the management at BBC thinks there are going to be significant events. Significant enough to restart it.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby Speak-Ez on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:25 pm

Here is a link to the media statements issued by Malaysia Airlines.

Media Statement & Information on Flight MH17

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html



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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17

Postby southernfry on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:43 pm

Thank you and I found this on CTV news -

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/rebels-rele ... -1.1923647

Malaysia Air link posted by Speak-Ez -

Firstly, the remains of 282 people, currently in Torez, will be moved by train to Kharkiv, where they will be handed over to representatives from the Netherlands. The train will depart this evening Ukraine time, and will be accompanied by six Malaysian members of the recovery team. The remains will then be flown to Amsterdam on board a Dutch C130 Hercules, together with the Malaysian team. Following any necessary forensic work, the remains of Malaysian citizens will then be flown home to Malaysia.

Secondly, at approximately 9pm tonight Ukraine time, the two black boxes will be handed over to a Malaysian team in Donetsk, who will take custody of them.

Thirdly, independent international investigators will be guaranteed safe access to the crash site to begin a full investigation of the incident.


I will believe it when I see it. Until then the bodies are in limbo while being moved, because it's too easy for the Russian terrorists to
change their mind for no reason at all. While both sides blame the other, I think most blame the Russian Government and
the men trying to cover things up at the crash.

I question the black boxes being handed to Malaysian officials. I think they need to go to an independent group to find the truth behind
this tragedy.a
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