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Overcrowding - We are running out of room

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:16 pm
by out in space
For 50 years the environmental movement has unsuccessfully argued that we should save the planet for moral reasons, that there were more important things than money. Ironically, it now seems it will be money -- through the economic impact of climate change and resource constraint -- that will motivate the sweeping changes necessary to avert catastrophe.

The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means. The eminent scientists of the Global Footprint Network, for example, calculate that we need about 1.5 Earths to sustain this economy. In other words, to keep operating at our current level, we need 50% more Earth than we've got. ... ?hpt=hp_t2

In a way it reminds me of the movie "Day After Tomorrow". They took so much and the world suffered in the end. They thought that the resources would never run out, but in the end the world's climate changed dramatically.

The once wide open spaces are disappearing. We are moving into territory once occupied by wildlife and they are suffering for it. If you can't change the way you live to match the surroundings than you shouldn't be there.

Re: Overcrowding - We are running out of room

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:10 am
by smitty
If one remembers our PM of Canada was not to Thailand just for a smile to friendly word, but to say to the leaders of Thailand to NOT send a maze of people from their land on a ship that is about to collapse if it reaches Canada, for they this is a cost on the Federal to Provincial Govt in taxes, food, very costly heath exminations to corrections to also trying to find them a home to also a job when Cdn born people are having trouble of obtaining a job.

I ran into a bit of it, in a small way, for so many doctors I would take this program to lean a bit about the PC. So at the start I was at our m/c shop to make sure things were going to start & run properly, then off to the back alley of this plac. A chain around my bike & a power pole.

After a few days in asking for this or that as to what to do this one woman said the other four considered me as a SPY. That had me wondering for my m/c jacket was on the wall, while helmet was close to the PC. I am paying for this sort of program to lean a bit, but they were getting all the training FREE.

Obviously they felt I was someone from the Fed or Provincial Govt in spying on them to see if they were learning what FREE training was of use to them. Sometimes one has to wonder. For after an hour there it was on with my jacket, the crash helmet in hand & out to unchain my bike to be back at the m/c shop as soon as I could.

Re: Overcrowding - We are running out of room

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:08 pm
by Speak1

Maybe Smitty is referring to the Tamil people on a Thai-registered boat.

Why Tamil Boat People Should Be Let into Canada

That story is from a year or so ago and I am surprised to see the issue goes as far back as 1914.

Might be, though, that is a sort of different displacement of peoples other than that which takes place for purely economic reasons, as might be one kind of people movement that has humans moving into wildlife territories as noted in the OP.

People have been migrating from here to there since entering the eco system of this planet for any number of reasons.

The ice age pushed people around.

I think the little creatures of this planet have pushed people around, haven't they? I seem to remember stories about locusts eating everything over vast areas and causing humans to have to move away. Or was that the grasshopper? I get a little confused about those two little types.

Illness due to even smaller "bugs" has also been responsible for killing off lots and lots of humans. And that "bug" was transported on the backs of rats. Animals doing a job on humans, right? I wonder where the moralists were when that was happening? I know, sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? A moral issue aimed at rats!

Sure the human population has grown since that "Black Bug" wiped out a bunch of them and sure that is going to cause problems, but to make it a moral issue seems a bigger problem. Are we to advocate we cull the human population beyond what was done in China? It's a difficult situation, but unless we start to advocate things like drastic culling of humans we have to let the wildlife suffer.

I mean, who is going to stand up in a meeting and say that such-and-such number of humans can't be born next year so that such-and-such number of elk can be born. When one gets right down to it, the Darwin kind of thinking is that a group of living things survives by being stronger and reproducing on a scale that allows it to push other living things out and that's all that humans seem to be doing. Are we supposed to start to state that humans are supposed to play dumb in this Darwin game so that less intelligent living things have a better chance? That isn't what the Darwin style thinking is about, is it?

Let's look at it in a very simple way. We have two groups of creatures that use their horns to fight each other to control territory. So one group starts to grow longer horns and can push the other group out of the territory and that group with the shorter horns starts to die off. This eco-moralist idea would advocate the long-horned group should start to chop their horns down to the same size as the group they are killing off. At least, that's a very, very simple way of looking at it.

What is much better, in my view, is for the humans to figure out what they can do to help the wildlife. I think that is being done, isn't it? Maybe not to a degree that makes everyone happy, but compromise is important and there are still a lot of humans that need help.

As for the talk about climate change, I don't think the experts are all in agreement just how much humans can do to change that.

The earth's climate has been doing a lot of changing all on its own. Those ice ages that pushed around human and wildlife alike way back when wasn't because the new humans on the earth had suddenly started making campfires.

If we are to discuss a moral issue with relation to pollution we have to wonder how fair it is for the developed nations of the world to state to the developing nations of the world that the developing nations of the world can't use the same techniques to achieve a higher standard of living for their people. I mean, the technique of burning fossil fuels to help improve a developing nation's economic growth isn't allowed because that rich country over there says so, after that rich country did exactly that? That doesn't seem so fair, does it?

Maybe humans would be a lot better off if they would stop worrying about moral issues and be more practical about things.


Re: Overcrowding - We are running out of room

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:56 am
by smitty
Speak 1, I thank you for correcting me. I really did not know this dated so long ago.

My late father actually was taking flying lessons, so he could join the Engineers, to be transferred to Endland & then ask if he could be a pilot during WWI. Only the WWI war was over (another way to eliminate a number of humans when one thinks of it----Guess Germany or England felt they had longer horns).

So he had not passed his last hrs of solo flying when WWI came to an end.

He spent his time helping trucks to wagons going around to all the civilians in Saskatoon Saskatchewan, helping people out of their ill homes or in some cases removing some bodies or extremely sick people from the SPANISH FLEW.

Lost his younger sister to the flue & went down with it himself. A doctors said to his father might be to get him to some place close to he sea & fresh air.

That turned out to be what we now call hollywood. There he met a number of the actors to comedians AND suddenly took a liking to a form of JAZZ music. I think he father was well off for when back into Saskatoon a Baby Grand Piano was purchased & his one home built by his fathe was almost a certain part of the LIving Room was for the Piano.