Sat collision highlights growing threat

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Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by Herr Here » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:37 am

The collision between a US and Russian satellite in space highlights the growing importance of monitoring objects in orbit.

It also shows that there are still major capability gaps in current systems set up for this task.

There are about 17,000 man-made objects above 10cm in size that orbit Earth - and the tally is constantly increasing. This in turn raises the risk of collisions between objects.

Richard Crowther, an expert on space debris and near-Earth objects, told BBC News: "It is unfortunate but inevitable, first that we would see such a collision in Low Earth orbit, and secondly - given the number of Iridium satellites in its constellation - more likely that the Iridium system would be affected rather than single satellite systems."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7885750.stm

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Its getting crowded up there. Im amazed that none have hit the space station.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by smitty » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:49 pm

So there is a bit more crap up there then most of us realized. Guess those lobbing things up that high should ALSO go togeather on comming up with a sort of CLEAN UP MACHINE if that can be conducted otherwise some of our more costly ones might be damaged in accidently running into some larger pieces travellin right into them at around speed of a Bullet. Now if the slower speed of a 45ACP then a 9mm I still would not like to be hit by something the size of a 45ACP for the weight of a 220 or 223 grain is what knockes one down compared to a 9mm of just 125 grains. Yes the 45ACP is appreciated as it is a killer due to weight & believe me you cannot duck a 45ACP like they believe in the movie world when ducking a 9mm. LOL LOL

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by out in space » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:18 pm

Smitty, Im wondering just how close the satellites and the space junk are coming to the Space Station.
Its not like they can duck and cover until it passes.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by Speak-Ez » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:55 pm

.
I can't seem to pull up http://www.stratcom.mil, but I think the person that wrote that BBC article is off by about 13,000 or more. I have to go from memory on this, but I think StratCom is presently tracking 30 plus thousand objects that are over 10cm in size.

I also am wondering what this line is supposed to mean?

It also shows that there are still major capability gaps in current systems set up for this task.
Is the writer implying that monitoring was not efficient, in this case. I haven't read anything that indicates this was StratCom's fault. It might have been the company's decision not to use the satellite's manuevering capability.

I could be wrong in questioning the writer's conclusion, because I haven't really had the time to study this incident, so I'll post a retraction if I find out this was such a surprise that the company had no time to manuever it's satellite and not that it chose not to.

Oh yes, I think somebody wrote about the ISS, right? They do manuever for avoidance when given instructions. Been done a number of times. There are, of course, objects smaller than 10cm that can do harm, too. They might not be spotted by StratCom. But, heh, it's space. We're still learning. It's a risk, no matter how hard we try. Might always be. Pilots closer to Earth have accidents and monkeys do fall out of trees. Nothing's a given.

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by deja vu » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:01 pm

Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms

Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky were reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities said.

There were no reports of ground strikes or interference with aircraft in flight, FAA spokesman Roland Herwig said.

Herwig told CNN the FAA received no reports from pilots in the air of any sightings but the agency recieved "numerous" calls from people on the ground from Dallas, Texas, south to Austin, Texas.

Video shot by a photographer from News 8 TV in Austin showed what appeared to be a meteor-like white fireball blazing across a clear blue sky Sunday morning. The photographer caught the incident while covering a marathon in Austin.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas. ... index.html
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by smitty » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:57 am

Media lead us that said collision was an American collided with a Russia weather station. POSSIBLY is was different & actally two Russian ones. This below, though long, comes from media that deals more with military matters.
Rogue Russian Satellites Gone Wild
February 13, 2009: Another collision in orbital space has destroyed an operational communications satellite (one of the Iridium birds, which supplies satellite phone service), at an altitude of about 770 kilometers over central Russia. The Iridium satellite was hit, on February 10th, by a dead Russian communications satellite (the one ton Cosmos 2251, equipped with a nuclear power supply, launched in 1993). The Russian bird could not be moved, nor could the Iridium (which, while active, was not equipped with thrusters for movement). The Iridium bird was one of sixty, so satellite phone services was not interrupted, because of the spare capacity in the system. The collision turned the two satellites into 600 bits of debris.
The last time anything like this happened was in 1991, when a dead satellite ran into debris from another, and created more debris. There have been two deliberate collisions since then. Two years ago, China launched a "killsat" that maneuvered into the path of a dead Chinese weather satellite, and destroyed it. Last year, the U.S. Navy used one of its Aegis equipped warships to destroy a malfunctioning U.S. spy satellite with an anti-missile missile. Russia and China have since called for such U.S. activity to be outlawed.

After sixty years of humans putting objects into orbit, there is a lot of junk up there. Currently, over 300,000 dangerous objects 10 mm (.4 inch) in size have been identified. The smallest of these is capable of disabling a satellite, or damaging a spacecraft. That's because these objects hit at very high speed (9-10 times faster than a bullet) if they, and their target, are coming from different directions.

There are nearly 18,000 objects 10 centimeters (4 inches) or larger. These can do some catastrophic damage, to satellites or spacecraft. There are billions of objects smaller than 10mm, and these are responsible for many satellites failing early because of cumulative damage from getting hit by several of these micro objects. There are also about 220 commercial satellites up there, plus nearly as many military ones.

There are lots of people keeping an eye on this clutter. The U.S. Air Force Space Surveillance Network, which tracks nearly 18,000 objects 10mm and larger, stopped sharing all of its information five years ago, for national security reasons. The Russian Space Surveillance System is known to use radar to track over 5,000 objects in low orbit. But the Russians have never shared this data completely, or regularly. Filling in the gaps are two international organizations; IADC (Inter-Agency Space Debris Coordination Committee) and ISON (International Space Observation Network). IADC is a government operation, whose members include the U.S. NASA, and the equivalents in Russia, China and several other major nations. Like most government organizations, not all data is shared.

ISON is a non-government organization, and they come up with some of the most interesting stuff. ISON comprises 18 scientific institutions, 18 observatories, 25 telescopes and over a hundred professionals. ISON does not, as far as anyone knows, withhold data because of any national security concerns. This is fairly certain because ISON work is monitored, and complemented, by the efforts of thousands of amateur astronomers and orbital addicts who connect via the Internet, and constantly scour the orbital space for new objects, and dangerous movements by existing ones.

ISON already has spotted 152 larger (over 10mm) objects that have never been reported by any of the government organizations. The Internet based amateurs are often the first to spot a lot of this new activity, mainly because they have more eyeballs, and, in some cases, impressive optical equipment, searching the skies.

When someone spots an object headed for a maneuverable satellite, the owner is alerted, and the bird is moved. This has happened several times in the last few years. The number of dangerous objects up there increases 10-20 percent a year. That's even with many of them falling into the atmosphere and burning up each year. Apparently, no one was able to predict the collision between Cosmos 2251 and the Iridium bird, largely because the high speed of these objects, and slight instability of their orbits, can turn an expected near miss into a direct hit.

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by out in space » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:48 pm

Orbiting Junk Causes Space Station Evacuation

That was a close call.

The two astronauts and one cosmonaut aboard the International Space Station had to duck for cover Thursday as space debris passed perilously close to the orbiting platform.

Crew members Sandra Magnus, Michael Fincke and Yury Lonchakov were ordered into one of the Soyuz TMA-13 escape capsules at 12:35 p.m. EDT.

In case the space station was hit, the astronauts could have undocked and headed back to Earth. The window of danger passed at 12:45 p.m., and the three crewmembers left the capsule and reentered the space station.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509010,00.html


At least they mastered "duck and cover".
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by smitty » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:19 pm

Seems countries that are scooting missles or whatever being dumped from them once up there AND now the space is worse then a traffic tied-up & some accidents in some of the busiest holidays AND no one has figured out how to scoop up said waste to make missels safe. Rather interesting especially with the latest American one with hope it will not be hit when docking.

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by mousepad » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:17 pm

Europeans seek to organize space junk
A piece of space junk nearly smashed into the international space station


DARMSTADT, Germany - Researchers concerned about an increasing amount of debris orbiting the earth are calling for the active removal of space junk, saying it will ensure a safe environment around the planet.

More than 300 scientists and other experts who met for four days at the European Space Agency said Thursday that sharing information is a crucial first step in preventing collisions and predicting with more accuracy where derelict satellites may fall to earth.

"We need to share more data," said Thomas Schildknecht of the Aeronautical Institute of the University of Bern. "We consider this most import and challenging part for the immediate future."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30012825/


Even if they find a way to do this I cant see it happening. The cost would be astronomical.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by alohasand » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:25 pm

Get some big-name sports teams and players together to finance a couple of space junk catchers' mitts to catch the junk. One mitt chases the junk and the other holds the junk until the mitts burn back down on re-entering the atmosphere. Every spring and fall, toss the mitts back up into space to sweep through.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by CielOnTap » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:40 pm

Aug 6, 2009
Chavez cherishes his Chinese-built satellite

By Peter J Brown

Last October, a new Chinese-built US$241 million communications satellite called Simon Bolivar or Venesat-1 was launched from China's Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwestern China on a CZ-3B rocket. It is owned by Venezuela. Uruguay also obtained a 10% stake in this satellite because Venesat-1 now occupies an orbital slot - essentially a parking space for a satellite approximately around 35,900 kilometers above Earth - assigned to Uruguay.

Thanks to this Chinese-built satellite, Venezuela's space agency - known as the Bolivarian Agency for Space Activities - has now joined an elite group in Latin America with working satellites. This elite includes Mexico, Brazil - which has enjoyed strong ties for many years with China in space - and Argentina. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KH06Ad02.html
Geopolitics and satellites--taking human matters into space. What would the millions of dollars have bought in services and goods for the people had it been spent on them rather than one big orbiting device and training?

Now I want to draw your attention to one (maybe two!) of the latest additions to the space junk circuit:
Venesat-1 is a so-called DFH-4. Over the past three years, two other DFH-4 satellites have suffered total failures including the above-mentioned Nigcomsat-1.

For CGWIC in particular, which oversees all Chinese satellite exports and serves as China's commercial satellite launch provider, Venesat-1 is an ideal opportunity.

As other nations may soon want to go down this same path, and with Nigeria's satellite - the first communications satellite that China ever sold to a foreign country - now out of service, Venezuela operates China's only foreign satellite communications venture. The fact that Venezuela has openly proclaimed that this satellite would play an important role for the entire region, and that it would not simply become another platform for satellite TV is important. At the time of the launch, Chavez said that Venesat-1 would be used for telecommunications, distance education, tele-medicine, and cultural programs as part of his country's leap forward to the 22nd century.
The writer indicates that there are stories of the Venezuelan satellite not operating properly, contrary to what officials are saying.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by ice cream » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:29 pm

A small piece of space junk will fly uncomfortably close to the International Space Station late Friday and may force astronauts aboard the outpost to take shelter in their Russian lifeboats.

NASA's Mission Control radioed the six astronauts on the station earlier today to alert them of the approaching space junk, which will fly within 1,640 feet of the orbiting laboratory Friday night at 10:48 ET. Sending the astronauts into their Soyuz lifeboats would be a precaution only, NASA officials said. Currently, the space junk poses no threat to the station or its crew, they added.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33731411/ns ... nce-space/


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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by guitarblues » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:30 pm

Even though the shuttle is set to go in the area of the ISS in over a week, the astronauts must have quick thoughts of "what if" going through their minds about the nearness of that junk moving by them.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by out in space » Wed May 26, 2010 6:50 pm

HILTON HEAD ISLAND(GOupstate.com) — It wasn't driftwood but a piece of a European satellite that washed ashore on the beach at a resort on the South Carolina coast.

The Island Packet of Hilton Head Island reported Monday the large curved object washed up on the beach at Palmetto Dunes on Saturday. The newspaper reported the Federal Aviation Administration identified the object as part of a satellite launched from an Ariane 5 rocket. Ralph Wagner of Shore Beach Services says labels on the object read "Made in France." Sheriff's deputies have been posted around the debris until it can be removed.


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At least it didn't hit anything or anyone on the way down. That would have left a mark.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by sharkeys » Thu May 27, 2010 12:06 pm

Is the sherriff's dept. going to collect some money from France or NASA for the time spent keeping an eye on space junk? Workplace hazardous materials etc. Not to mention any environmental issues for the item was in the water!
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by smitty » Thu May 27, 2010 2:53 pm

It is a though alohasand in a manner that will give most a bit of a laugh. Still the junk piling up there will soon outdo that of some major cities in the world only more dangerous then we can realize as those things are whizzing around at quite a pace completely out of control for no person responsible for some of them will not be saying Fore to some that might be hit.

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by CielOnTap » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:15 pm

2182 is the possible year of asteroid impact on Earth (or not). Sometimes science can be annoying--it's not like we'd be teleporting anywhere.

Giant asteroid could hit Earth in 2182
By QMI Agency

A potentially hazardous asteroid is heading towards Earth, but don't worry — Spanish researchers say it has a one-in-a-thousand chance of hitting the planet and impact wouldn't happen until 2182.

"The total impact probability of asteroid (101955) 1999 RQ36 can be estimated in 0.00092 — approximately one-in-a-thousand chance — but what is most surprising is that over half of this chance (0.00054) corresponds to 2182," said María Eugenia Sansaturio, co-author of the study and researcher at the Universidad de Valladolid. The study appears in the science journal Icarus.http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Science/201 ... 79726.html
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by CielOnTap » Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:33 pm

Image
ISRO’s Christmas show falls to pieces, rocket explodes after lift-off
Published: Saturday, Dec 25, 2010, 16:45 IST | Updated: Saturday, Dec 25, 2010, 20:52 IST
Place: Sriharikota, Bangalore | Agency: PTI, DNA

India's space programme suffered a setback today when one of its communication satellites aboard a Geosynchronous Launch Vehicle (GSLV) exploded less than a minute after lift-off from the spaceport in Sriharikota and fell into the sea.

GSAT-5P, carrying 24 C-band and 12 extended C-band transponders, aboard a homegrown vehicle GSLV F06 failed after the rocket veered from its flight path and broke into pieces.

The destruct command was issued when the control and command signal failed to reach the activation system at the first stage itself, ISRO chief K Radhakrishnan told a press conference shortly after the aborted launch, the second in nine months in the Indian space programme. http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_is ... ff_1485985
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by out in space » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:16 pm

Coming to a neighbourhood near you, MAYBE. The latest piece of space junk is heading home and while most will burn up on reentry it's the big pieces that survive that have some worried.


http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/ ... latestnews

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by smitty » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:47 pm

It seems that sometimes when things come tumbling towards earth it seems to hit in a more northern part of Canada, but one can really never tell till it does land.

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by deja vu » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:25 pm

>
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/ ... latestnews

Oh where, oh where, has the massive piece of space junk gone?

Right now it's missing in action. They know it landed, but where is the million dollar question right now. If it landed on terra firma it should be easy to find. That is unless it ended up in the middle of no where. If it's in the ocean it's probably gone for good.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by CielOnTap » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:08 pm

OK, I'm disbelieving this situation--NASA knows a satellite will become space junk but does not know where it landed. With the high tech equipment used, how can NASA not pick up where the junk's trajectory is?? Or is this article misinformation, to hide the fact that the heavy junk did something useful on its descent that could be a political matter?
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by cubed » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:21 pm

A failed Russian probe designed to travel to a moon of Mars but stuck in Earth orbit will crashing back to earth, the Russian space agency said on Sunday.

Roscosmos said the unmanned Phobos-Ground was expected to crash between 11:41am and 4:05pm EST. It could crash anywhere along the route of its next few orbits, which would include Europe, southeast Asia, Australia and South America. The US, Canada and much of Russia are outside the risk zone.


http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/rus ... 1q1p8.html


What's next after this? Reports say it's the size of a bus and would be hard to miss. Large target zone so flip a coin if your in
that area.

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by pretzels » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:02 pm

Generally speaking, if someone launched a spaceship or other spaceworthy craft, ownership remains attached to the craft, space junk or not? Unlike meteorites, which is finders keepers?
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by CielOnTap » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:36 pm

The craft has fallen in the water near Chile and possibly as far away as Brazil (for fragments). I'm not reassured by the comments about how the toxicity of substances diminishes by burning.
Sun Jan 15 2012
Space probe crashes in Pacific, Russian officials say


MOSCOW A Russian space probe designed to boost the nation’s pride on a bold mission to a moon of Mars came down in flames Sunday, showering fragments into the South Pacific west of Chile’s coast, officials said.

Pieces from the Phobos-Ground, which had become stuck in Earth’s orbit, landed in water 1,250 kilometres west of Wellington Island in Chile’s south, the Russian military Air and Space Defence Forces said in a statement carried by the country’s news agencies.

The military space tracking facilities were monitoring the probe’s crash, its spokesman Colonel Alexei Zolotukhin said. Zolotukhin said the deserted ocean area is where Russia guides its discarded space cargo ships serving the International Space Station. http://www.thespec.com/news/world/artic ... icials-say
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by musicrock » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:40 pm

The tidy Swiss want to clean up space.

Swiss scientists said Wednesday they plan to launch a "janitor satellite" specially designed to get rid of orbiting debris known as space junk. The 10-million-franc ($11-million) satellite called CleanSpace One — the prototype for a family of such satellites — is being built by the Swiss Space Center at the Swiss Federal Institute for Technology in Lausanne, or EPFL.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46398518/ns ... zvpmlE7uSo


Great if it works. If every country that has space junk forks over some cash, space will be cleaned a lot faster. It's in everyone's best interest
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by smitty » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Obviously some humans from Russia (not mentioning some that pay for the fun ride in space), along with some North Americans are up there in some of those missels AND things could happen. Believe me I would not want to be one of them.

We have car/truck drivers going at to high a speed in the summer time to also in the winter time with iced up roads & many are failing to stay on the roads or loose control & pile ino each other or over the banks & if in a lake THEN it is touch & go if a rescue crew can pull all out ALIVE.

Up in space there is no such thing as to the limit of speed or what route they are permitted to take. So why some feel that being up in space is a must to them even if they are doing nothing when up in space compared to the true Russian & American ones.

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by up-down » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:03 pm

An asteroid the size of a passenger jet will zoom close by Earth on Sunday just in time for April Fools' Day, but it has no chance of hitting the Earth, NASA says.

The asteroid 2012 EG5 will be closer than the moon when it passes Earth at 5:32 a.m. EDT (0932 GMT). The space rock is about 150 feet wide, according to a NASA update.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46914188/ns ... 3dve9n0nSg


I wonder who will have the better view. The space station or some lucky people on earth.

No doubt the doomsday talk will start up again.
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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by soapy » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:50 pm

The saga of what steps that must be taken to deal with the evolving threat of Earth-circling orbital debris is a work in progress. This menacing problem — and the possible cleanup solutions — is international in scope.

Space junk is an assortment of objects in Earth orbit that is a mix of everything from spent rocket stages, derelict satellites, chunks of busted up spacecraft to paint chips, springs and bolts. A satellite crash in February 2009, for example, marked the first accidental hypervelocity crash between two intact artificial satellites in Earth orbit. That cosmic crash created significant debris — a worrisome amount of leftover bits and pieces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50617033/ns ... QbUkfImaSo


Hollywood created Space Cowboys and now NASA and company need to create Space Garbage People. What ever they come up with it's going to be costly and a bigger issue comes to mind. What to do with all of that junk once they bring it down?

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Re: Sat collision highlights growing threat

Post by smitty » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:44 pm

Not really on the subject & I really do wish I could remember names, but we had a Canadian astronaut up in his unit that put on a teriffic show to young people in the schools. He did a darn good job & I am sure so many of those kids were even more then IMPRESSED. Meaning he did such a good bit of acting in space.

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